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Етцове рестрикције за осму едицију

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Етцове рестрикције за осму едицију

Post  Iskusinjo on Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:40 pm

At ETC we will be using a LOS system. AR.com will present two alterative systems with this rules pack and asks the captains to playtest both before making a recommendation. This can be found in the following thread viewtopic.php?f=18&t=78142

Rules changes:
- Steadfast is removed if a unit is disrupted.
- Units with at least one full rank cause Disruption.
- Characters will get "look out sir" versus the following spells that automatically kill models or automatically remove an entire regiment: Dwellers Below, Final Transmutation, Dreaded 13th, Infernal Gateway 11-12 effect. Normal requirements for lookout sir apply.

General Restrictions:
2400 Points.
No Special or Named Characters.
Armys can be selected from any of the currently published GW Army books.
A maximum of 4 identical core choices may be taken (regardless of equipment and other upgrades).
A maximum of 5 warmachines may be taken per army
Unit sizes of are limited as follows:
- Non-infantry units (including monstrous infantry): Maximum 12 models/unit
- Infantry costing 5 points or less: Maximum 40 models/unit
- Infantry costing 6-9 points: Maximum 30 models/unit
- Infantry costing 10 points or more: Maximum 24 models/unit


Magic Restrictions:
- Apart from Winds of magic and Channeling, an army may only generate 2 PD/DD per magic phase.
- You may have units/abilities that actually would generate more than 2 extra dice, but any excess dice are lost
- Some magic items/abilities count as generating dice toward this limit.
- “Count as” items/abilities may never exceed a cumulative 2PD/DD per phase. This means that if you take the power scroll, you may not take any other items that “count as adding PD/DD”


Item restrictions:
- Power Scroll counts as generating 2 PD and 2 DD each magic phase
- Each Loremaster ability counts as generating 1 PD each magic phase
- Items that auto-dispel a spell counts as generating 1 DD each magic phase
- Folding Fortress is not allowed

Army Specific Restrictions:

Beastmen: No Restrictions
Bretts: Trebuchet is a 0-1 choice
Dark Elves: Hydra is a 0-1 choice
Dwarves: Anvil of doom counts as warmachine; Grudge Throwers are a 0-2 choice; Max +4 dispel dice instead of +2
DOC: Flamers are a 0-1 choice. Siren Song may only be taken once
Empire: Steam Tank counts as warmachine; Tank, Rocket battery and Engineers are a 0-1 choice
High Elves: Book of Hoeth counts as generating +2PD and +2 DD; Shard and Crystal as +1DD/phase
Lizards: Salamanders are a 0-1 Choice; Terradons, Chameleon Skinks and Stegadons (any kind) are 0-2 choices; Beclaming cogitations counts as generating +2DD, Cupped hands as +2PD/phase.
Ogres: No Restrictions
O&G: No Restrictions
Skaven: Hell Pit Abomination is a 0-1 choice; Gutter runners are a 0-2 choice; Engineers are a 0-3 choice
Vampires: Wraiths and Varghulf are 0-1 choices
TK: No restrictions
WE: Wand of Wych Elm counts as generating +1 DD/phase
Warriors of Chaos: Hellcannon is a 0-1 choice. Infernal Puppet counts as generating +2DD /phase; Tendrils of Tzeench and Conjoined Homonucleus all count as generating +1 PD/Phase.


Explanatory notes:

1) The "removal of steadfast if disrupted" and the unit size limits are there because we see "bunker armies" as an emerging problem. This is particularily problematic in an ETC context, where playing for draws is a legit (indeed advisable) strategy. To this extent we have also decided that the Folding fortress allows too many "abusive" things for defensive armies. Hopefully, these changes will lead to a more dynamic game. The "one rank to disrupt" is a rule that is intended to make cavalry a viable troop choice for ETC armies.

2) Magic:
The principle of capping dice generation has been chosen for two reasons: It works regardless of rolls on winds of magic/channeling (a generic dice cap makes some armies extremely powerful when WOM rolls are low) and because it gives us a tool to restrict powerful items.

This works as follows.
a) An army that takes items/abilities that allow them to generate more dice, may never generate more than two dice, regardless of source. For example: An Empire army with an Archlector and a Warrior Priest would only generate +2DD, even though it would normally generate 3. The excess dice is lost and may not be used or stored.

b) If an army takes an item/ability with a "count as" clause, the limit for extra dice is affected. If, for instance the same Empire army brought a dispel scroll (counts as +1 DD because it auto dispels a spell). That same army would only ever generate +1 DD in each of the opponent's magic phases. The 2 excess dice would be lost. If both a dispell scroll and the seal of destruction were to be taken by that empire army, no additional DD would be generated (and all 3 DD from the Archlector/Warrior Priest would be lost).

c) Under no circumstances may an army have "count as" items that exceed +2PD/2DD. No negative modifiers may occur, you are simply not allowed to take any more items/abilities with a "count as" clause. For example: A VC army has Forbidden Lore on one vampire. This means that the VC army could not take a Power Scroll as this would generate +3PD in "count as" abilities. (+1 for Forbidden lore, which gives loremaster, and +2 for the power scroll). The army would be illegal.

d) Some very powerful items give penalties to both PD and Dispel dice, even though they do not directly affect Dispeling. The reason for this is that these items are so powerful that we feel that the drawbacks for taking them should be considerable. Taking a power scroll for instance, means: No Loremaster, no scroll, no additional dice generating in the army whatsoever.

3. The Army-specific restrictions are fairly light. The reason for this is that we want to see how things work out with minimal restrictions, and then tighten the screw if ever (whenever) the needs arise.

4. We want to reiterate that this is a first draft, and is intended to be a changing document. It is therefore acceptable -indeed encouragable- that people play around with these rules and restrictions. If event organizers feel that something needs changing (that one army is comped too harshly for instance), then change it for your tournament and -pretty please- report your findings back to us.

We are by no means perfect, therefore this draft isn't either. It never will be. But with your help, we believe that this can be turned into a solid, enjoyable ruleset.

With regards to our timetable for this project, we aim to release an updated draft on the first Monday in November, January and a final one March.

AR.com

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Re: Етцове рестрикције за осму едицију

Post  Maxa on Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:15 pm

skroz ok.
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Re: Етцове рестрикције за осму едицију

Post  Putujuci Djindas on Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:20 pm

ja vama lepo kazem...2 zabe i da vidis!
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Re: Етцове рестрикције за осму едицију

Post  Slos on Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:42 pm

Book of hotek i dalje nije penalizovan.
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Re: Етцове рестрикције за осму едицију

Post  severian on Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:30 am

U stvari jeste. Može hotek ali sada to radi samo sa onoliko kockica koliko baci u vetrovima magije. 6-7 u proseku. I ro mu je siguran jedan irressistable.
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Re: Етцове рестрикције за осму едицију

Post  Slos on Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:34 am

Pa da, smo mu to i treba!!! a ti stojis i gledas dok ti umire pola armije.
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Re: Етцове рестрикције за осму едицију

Post  Putujuci Djindas on Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:50 am

ne dok ti druga zaba ima kasandoru i baca jednu po krugu uspesno tako da ne moze da se dispeluje Smile frog frog
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Re: Етцове рестрикције за осму едицију

Post  тајнисвет on Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:13 am

Треба то још доста да се пегла, али подржавам рестрикције. Него другари, има ли ко би се играо самном у недељу Ратног маља?
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Re: Етцове рестрикције за осму едицију

Post  Slos on Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:30 am

Rado, taman da ja oprobam svoju listu po ETC-u.
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Re: Етцове рестрикције за осму едицију

Post  sharpshooter on Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:03 pm

evo i ja bih hteo sa nekim da se igram ratnog malja...
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Re: Етцове рестрикције за осму едицију

Post  тајнисвет on Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:13 pm


In this thread you will find the 2 systems that AR.Com have come up with. Discussion continued from the AR Thread - viewtopic.php?f=18&t=78141&p=959940#p959940

We have discussed the merits of both systems and want to put it to the community for discussion.

System A

Quote:
- Units never block line of sight to other units. Line of Sight is drawn from base to base.
- When shooting at a unit that is at least 50% obscured by another unit or Line of Sight blocking terrain the shooters receive a hard cover modifier.
- Swarms never grant cover. Large Targets can never benefit from cover granted by other models.
- Hills, buildings and obelisks block line of sight to all units, other terrain grants soft cover to units in or behind it
- Units on a hill or upstairs in a building receive no penalty for shooting over units on a lower level.
- If a warmachine has the indirect fire rules they will be used if their target is in hard cover.


System B

Quote:
Model size chart:
0: Swarms - models of this size never block line of sight or give cover.
1: Infantry, War Beasts, War Machines
2: Cavalry, Monstrous Infantry/Cavalry/Beasts, Chariots, Unique without the Large Target rule
3: Monsters, all Large Targets

Models "see" in their front 1/4 zone. Line of Sight is blocked by models that are equal to or larger than both the model whose line of sight we are checking and its target.

Hills are size two for each level (so a 3-step hill is size 6). Models standing on hills add the hill size to their own size. Buildings and large rocks always block line of sight completely.

Skirmishers never block LoS, and are seen/give cover in accordance with their size on the chart. Skirmishers formed up for combat block Line of Sight normally.

Cover is provided, according to the normal rules, by units that are one size smaller than both the shooter and the target (one size smaller, same size or larger in the case of skirmishers giving cover).



I won't repeat all the AR.Com's views on each system unless it becomes apparent that they are required.

Go away and play these systems and let us know what you think to them. As with the rest of the rules pack this is still a draft and if there are aspects of the systems that could be improved then they are totally flexible.

We look forwards to hearing your thoughts.

AR.Com
Млађо, убаци овај део уместо оног лошег линка...


У недељу онда изводим Огрее по ЕТЦу. Ви ћете ми објаснити шта то значи, ја ћу неку листу направити од 2400, па ме неко учи правила. И онда ми на крају каже шта да напишем да ми се није свидело код рестрикција, да ја налупам пар паламара текста као по обичају, поводом те теме.


Last edited by тајнисвет on Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Етцове рестрикције за осму едицију

Post  Largo on Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:16 pm

E pa super - sad ne mogu da koristim 2 trebusea.
Generalno je ok. Penalizovani su itemi - nema generisanja puno dodatnih kockica ... Mada će tu da bude još dosta izmena.
Divna stvar je što možeš da skidađ steadfast Smile
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Re: Етцове рестрикције за осму едицију

Post  sharpshooter on Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:38 pm

stefane oces li ti da se igras u nedelju?
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Re: Етцове рестрикције за осму едицију

Post  тајнисвет on Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:46 pm

Иако неискусан, мишљења сам да је бољи Б систем. Шта ви кажете?

Сале, може од 4 у недељу? Јави на пм, да не гушимо тему.
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Re: Етцове рестрикције за осму едицију

Post  Largo on Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:03 pm

i ja sam za jednu partiju.
Čak znam šta ću da izbacim iz armije za 2400 poena.
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Re: Етцове рестрикције за осму едицију

Post  Slos on Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:19 pm

Hmmmm.... da nije taj drugi trebuche???
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Re: Етцове рестрикције за осму едицију

Post  Largo on Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:57 pm

Bravo...
Baš odličan si...
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Re: Етцове рестрикције за осму едицију

Post  Broj1 on Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:07 pm

A jel kod vas neko uopšte igra Wahrammer pošto je ovo o čemu vi pričat neka druga igra sa istim figurama i donekle sličnim pravilima?
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Re: Етцове рестрикције за осму едицију

Post  severian on Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:30 pm

Igramo i to. Bilo nas je 7+1 u Mađarskoj i uzeli smo drugo i treće mesto.
Što ? Mi se igramo Warhammera u svim verzijama i trudimo se da zajedno sa drugim igračima napravimo što bolju igru kako bi smo se svi zabavljali jednako. Igrali smo u Sloveniji sa ac-om i Mađarskoj bez AC-a. Igraćemo u Beogradu i Zagrebu po pravilima koja propiše orgnizator. I zabavljaćemo se.

Jel neko ima problem sa tim ?
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Re: Етцове рестрикције за осму едицију

Post  тајнисвет on Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:34 pm

severian wrote:
Jel neko ima problem sa tim ?

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Браво Владо, подржавам све што си написао. Стварно је безобразно доћи на Форум клуба који држи најбољи турнир у земљи и окружењу, и поповати које се то игре играју.
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Re: Етцове рестрикције за осму едицију

Post  Piksi on Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:39 pm

Oh ne neshto nejde po ucrtanim linijama pa kako pa zashto pa ja sam ne informisan, oh oh Antonije pogiboh. ( Moram i ja malo da trolujem >.< )
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Re: Етцове рестрикције за осму едицију

Post  =Charok= on Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:45 pm

Broj1 wrote:A jel kod vas neko uopšte igra Wahrammer pošto je ovo o čemu vi pričat neka druga igra sa istim figurama i donekle sličnim pravilima?

Igramo Warhammer, Wahrammer ne igramo, mada bi ja voleo da probam, mozda bi mogla neka prezentacija u Valhali za vikend?
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Re: Етцове рестрикције за осму едицију

Post  Piksi on Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:49 pm

E ja sam skorz za, Vlada vec godinama prica o toj igri. Jel mi treba puno figura? Jel mogu da korsitim DnD kocikce za to? Poshto farbanje? Jel ima neko u Novom Sadu ko igra WH bash bi hteo da vidim kako to cudo izgleda.
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Re: Етцове рестрикције за осму едицију

Post  Malkovian on Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:03 pm

ovaj jel to ono sa plasticnim vojnicima posto ja imam negde u nekoj kutiji amerikance i nemce jer mogu to da koristim?
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Re: Етцове рестрикције за осму едицију

Post  =Charok= on Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:54 pm

E, ajd sad ozbiljno: Razumem ja da postoji otpor prema budzenju pravila (ono, igram se po D&D 3.5 ediciji vec godinama i ne planiram da ista menjam), ali mislim da ekipa koja se aktivno igra WH kao sto to radi ETC ekipa ima maaaalo vise prava da iskomentarise pojedina pravila. Svi mi znamo da GW konstantno gura nova pravila da bismo mi skupljali sve vece armije, da se vrednost heroja stalno smanjuje u odnosu na vrednost velikih rank&file jedinica. S druge strane, Teklis je ocigledna prevara koja koristi rupu u pravilima. Mag koji nema IF... vazi.

A jel mogu specijalni karakteri sad u BGu?
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