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ETC Tereni

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Re: ETC Tereni

Post  severian on Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:22 pm

A jel postoji i poseban podforum za whf kapitene kao i za 40k?
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Re: ETC Tereni

Post  teclis on Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:37 pm

severian wrote:
Njive smo već izbacili...

ako smem da pitam - kakve njive Smile ?
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Re: ETC Tereni

Post  kgkid on Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:47 pm

@ Vlada:
Mislim da postoji, to Andriju pitaj.

@ Teklis:
Ružne, vrlo ružne njive. =)
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Re: ETC Tereni

Post  severian on Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:05 pm

Ajde molim vas napišite mi pravila za svaki pojedinačni teren koji ćemo koristiti. na jasnom i nedvosmislenom jeziku da to postujemo na TWF i čujemo eventualne komentare pošto tamo sve traje 100 godina...
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Re: ETC Tereni

Post  Largo on Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:03 pm

[img][/img]

Odličan primer za ruins
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Re: ETC Tereni

Post  teclis on Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:33 pm

Largo wrote:[img][/img]

Odličan primer za ruins

pretpostavljam da ovo moze u silikon_kada_kalup da ze lije od gipsa za dzabe
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Re: ETC Tereni

Post  severian on Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:52 pm

Video, i slažem se. Samo preko toga staviti još par komada nekog kamenja koje može da se skloni i ok....


Last edited by severian on Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: ETC Tereni

Post  teclis on Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:08 pm

Treba razmisliti za stubov sta i kako je najlakse. Msm da je najbolje ili neke cevi plasticne pa sa testerom motornom da se sece i posle toga akrilni git+pesak za teksturu . ili akrilni pesak+brashno
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Re: ETC Tereni

Post  Brain Damage on Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:02 pm

Kazite sta mislite.












Last edited by Brain Damage on Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:02 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Re: ETC Tereni

Post  kgkid on Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:09 pm

Ma, sve je super.
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Re: ETC Tereni

Post  Jogurt on Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:05 pm

Lepo odradjeno.

Ako smem jedan komentar a to je manje kuca. Najvise dve. Kuce imaju pravila koja su po meni lose uradjena i mogu lako da se iskoriste zlonamerno. Takodje mozda vise zidova, zidovi su kool za igranje, vecinom zbog blokiranja topova.

6ti sto: "mozda" je jedno jezero dovoljno...

3ci, 7di i 8mi mi se nesto ne svidjaju. Fali takticke sposobnosti.
8mi: Mozda da se pomeri jezero blizu centra a da se sume malo odvoje.
8mi, 7mi i 3ci: Sume kad su blizu sprecava pucacku vojsku da osteti protivnike. Ja bi malo te sume razdvojio.
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Re: ETC Tereni

Post  severian on Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:50 pm

Ja bi i dalje da se napišu detaljna pravila. As per RB je podložno tumačenju.
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Re: ETC Tereni

Post  severian on Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:55 pm

Da li baš svugde moraju da budu brda u deplymentu ?
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Re: ETC Tereni

Post  Brain Damage on Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:33 pm

Pravila za terene u osmoj ediciji su dosta precizno napisana, ako krenemo da prepisujemo sve postoji sansa da nesto propustimo. Ako mi preciziras sta mislis da nije jasno po RB to mogu posebno naznaciti. Naglasicu posebno jos da nema misticnih terena i da se pretpostavlja da ce LOS biti ko ove godine. Brda mogu lako da se izbace iz zone za postavljanje ali ja mislim da brda blize sredini samo povecavaju zonu u kojoj se moze neko sakriti.
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Re: ETC Tereni

Post  Slos on Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:21 pm

Totalno sexy, odobravam, svaka čast Andrija
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Re: ETC Tereni

Post  severian on Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:28 pm

Pogledao bolje i brda mi se sviđaju Smile.
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Re: ETC Tereni

Post  severian on Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:36 pm

Nikako ne sumnjam ja da su jasna i mogu da se prepišu ako treba. Hoću da izbegnem ono: Ja sam mislio da....

No pogledaću ja i tamo...


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Re: ETC Tereni

Post  Razon on Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:27 am

Bok, dodao bih par komentara.
Mislim da su stolovi super! Na svakom se može koristiti teren bilo ofanzivno bilo defanzivno. Ako se na brda gleda kao mjesta sa kojih se puca uvijek ima neki teren pomoću kojeg se moze biti u zaklonu dok se prilazi; što je super.
Ako me sjećanje služi prije 2 i 3 godine je u Njemačkoj bio vrlo mali teren. Tipa 4-5x4-5 ''. Iako je bio čudan, nije bilo pritužbi da ne valja. Ove godine nisam bio u Poljskoj no čujem da su tereni bilo ogromni i da je to predstavljalo problem.
Pa, ako se dvoumite oko dimenzija, možda radije uzeti opciju sa par '' manje?

Svezi kuća. One u normalnim partijama nisu problem. No na kompetitivnom ETCu su veliki problem.
Npr kuće kažu da kada unit izlazi van iz njih mora biti 1'' sa svojim rear rankom. I onda može npr 12 elf archera izaći van tako da unit stoji u liniji u bilo kojem smjeru i gleda u bilo kojem smjeru (uvijek će rear rank biti 1'' od kuće). Ovo se nadovezuje sa problemom conga linija + stubborn ili unbreakable unita.
Prije 2 godine je bilo puno rasprave na AR FAQ izradi oko tih kuća, jedna od tema je bila da li se i kako može reformati nakon combata sa kućom; no na kraju se uzeo RAW pristup.
Balansa radi bih predložio da su kuće blocking LoS te da sve imaju dva kata. Razlog je da sav imapssible teren mora biti blocking te da je 10 shooting modela dovoljno (5 po katu). Ili recite da igrači sami odluče koliko je katova. Ja uglavnom na turnirima rollam D3 za visinu.
No naj važnije je što ste stavili kuće na 4 stola i to je taman.

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Re: ETC Tereni

Post  kgkid on Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:13 pm

Pravila u knjizi uopste nisu dovoljno precizna jer ne pokrivaju probleme sa LoS (VLoS, SLoS...). Poslao sam Vladi neki predlog, pa vidite. Smile

Sto se tice izlaska iz kuca, lako se to resi u FAQ, ali to nije u nasim rukama. jednostavno se kaze da ni jedan model na kraju kretnje ne moze da bude udaljen vise od dvostrukog svog M i to je to. Tako je reseno za jedinice koje ulaze sa ivice terena i radilo je dosta dobro.

Mnogo tih nekih prblema se relativno lako resava u FAQ, hajde da pritisnemo zajedno...
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Re: ETC Tereni

Post  severian on Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:52 pm

Hvala ti Vedrane što si odvojio vreme da pogledaš. Kao što rekoh u ovom trenutku mi svako mišljenje jako znači jer uskoro prelazimo liniju bez povratka... Tj, tereni bivaju isečeni....
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Re: ETC Tereni

Post  Razon on Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:46 pm

kgkid wrote: jednostavno se kaze da ni jedan model na kraju kretnje ne moze da bude udaljen vise od dvostrukog svog M
To i je sada na snazi kada se izlazi iz kuće. Zato i spomenuh 12 elfova koji uz 1'' od kuće taman ispunjavaju 10'' udaljenost od te kuće. Barem mislim da je 12 modela, znam da sam to mjerio za vrijeme priprema za prošli ETC (jer mi je to Poljski igrač napravio na Lorenzu/ Universal battle stranici za vrijeme testne partije pa sam išao provjeravati). Smile

Za 2013 se ne može znati što će pisati u AR ili FAQu, sve ovisi tko će biti u njima tj kako će oni biti izabrani. Možda 'poprave' kuće, možda ih 'pogoršaju'. Smile
No stvarno nije na vama da time razbijate glavu ali možete malo utjecati na to sa svojim stolovima. Zato moj mini prijedlog da se baze za kuće radije drže malo manje te da nisu defaultno lvl3. Kuće jesu uvijek bile blocking za LoS na ETCu ali u ovom opisu terena što je Andrija stavio ne piše da blikiraju LoS pa zato to spomenuh. Te 4 stola sa kućama je taman, 5 ili više bi bilo previše.

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Re: ETC Tereni

Post  kgkid on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:25 pm

Vlada mi je rekao da ovo sto sam napisao okacim ovde. Posto nisam u mogucnosti da sada uploadujem dokument, evo ga copy/paste:


Rules for Terrain at ETC 2013.
Hills – As per BRB description of an ordinary hill (p. 118 first 5 paragraphs, i.e. without the “Examples of hills” subsection) with following additional explanations:
Line of Sight:
Hills block Line of Sight. Models on hills can see over other terrain that blocks Line of Sight, except other hills.

Forests – As per BRB description of an ordinary forest (p. 119 first 6 paragraphs, i.e. without “Mysterious Forests” subsection) with following additional explanations:
Line of Sight:
Forests are Interfering terrain providing Soft Cover for units as described in BRB.
For Line of Sight purposes Forests count as being of infinite height. This implies that units shooting trough forest will always suffer Soft Cover penalty, even if shooting from a hill or building.

Lake – Here we have two suggestions for you to consider:
1. As per BRB description of a Normal River (p. 120 first 5 paragraphs, i.e. without “Mysterious Rivers” subsection) with following additional explanations:
Line of Sight: Lakes are non-blocking terrain features. They do not block or interfere with Line of Sight.
2. As per BRB description of an ordinary Marshland (p. 121 first 3 paragraphs, i.e. without “Examples of Marshland” subsection) with following additional explanations:
Line of Sight: Lakes are non-blocking terrain features. They do not block or interfere with Line of Sight.

Walls and fences - As per BRB description of an ordinary Wall or a Fence (p. 123 with common rules for Obstacles, p.122) with following additional explanations:
Walls and fences definition of a unit “behind” is applied only to units actually defending the obstacle (i.e. aligned with it and touching it). Apart from that, Obstacles are non-blocking and non-interfering terrain features.

Buildings - As per BRB description of an ordinary building (p.126 - 129, i.e. without “Arcane Architecture” subsection) with following additional explanations:
Regardless of actual representation, all buildings are considered to be “single-part” (i.e. there are NO multipart buildings).
Regardless of actual representation, all buildings are considered to be 2 stories high, with all implications on number of models that can shoot.
Regardless of actual representation, all buildings are considered to be able to store up to 25 infantry models. Larger units cannot occupy the building.
Regardless of actual representation, all buildings are considered to be blocking terrain for Line of Sight purposes. Units in buildings can see over other blocking or interfering terrain, except other buildings, forests and hills.

Ruins –
Line of Sight:
Ruins are interfering terrain features, providing Hard Cover for all units with majority of their models in the feature (even for units shooting from hills and buildings), and also for shooting trough them (except for units shooting trough them from hills and buildings).
Movement:
Marching trough Ruins is possible only for skirmishers and Swarms.
Ruins are dangerous terrain for all but Infantry, Monstrous Infantry, Swarms and Warbeasts.
Charging or fleeing trough (including to and from) ruins is Dangerous for all but Infantry Skirmishers and Swarms.
Cavalry, Monstrous Cavalry and Chariots fail Dangerous Terrain test on 1 and 2, instead of 1.
Combat:
Units with models inside Ruins cannot claim Rank bonus, or be Steadfast.

Impassable –
Line of Sight:
Impassable terrain blocks Line of Sight, for all except units on hills and in buildings.
Movement:
No model can end its movement in the impassable terrain, regardless of any special rules it might have.

Nadam se da nisam mnogo izbrljao, a vi napred i naval'te.

Savet da sve terene drzimo na relativno malim bazama.
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Re: ETC Tereni

Post  Jogurt on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:43 pm

Darko, meni se mnogo svidja taj dokument. Veoma precizno definise stvari.

Vidim da je mishljenje da bude najvise 10 pucaca iz zgrade? Jer mislite da je 15 previse? Kako se definise line of sight cover/itd iz zgrade?

Svidja mi se taj ruin dangereous terrain. Problem koji sam ja imao sa ruinima je to da se parkiraju 30 swordmastera i nemozes da ih upucas.... A u sred table su i bacaju ti light magiju sa 4 wizarda.
lepo je to da se doda da se izgubi rank bonus. To je i realno i lepse za igru. Isto tako dangereous terrain test za sve je lepo jer ako chargujes imas problema. Takodje i to da nemoze da se marchira je lepo. Gubljenje rank je isto dobar deterent. Sa ovim pravilima bi stavio vise ruina po stolovima, ja bi zamenio jednu kucu sa ruinom.
--------Samo bi jednu stvar izmenio: To je da se ne daje hard cover za jedinicu iza ruina samo kada udje u ruin. Samo soft cover iza ruina, strele bi letele preko, a inace hard cover je velika pomoc combat armija u compu u kojem vec vladaju combat armije. To moze da ima uticaj na 4tom stolu. Nije kao ove gde je ruin bio u samom centru table.
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Re: ETC Tereni

Post  kgkid on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:53 pm

Rusevine: Ja racunam da je teze nisaniti, pa zato cover ako pucas kroz... Ukoliko pucas preko (iz neke zgrade, ili sa brda) onda nemas cover osim ako nisi unutar rusevina.

Kuce: Daju hard cover i prate sva pravila iz knjige. Ima toga previse da bi se prekucavalo. Takodje, ako skucas jedinicu repeater CB u kucu, videces koliko 15 pucanja ume da bude mnogo. To je inace bila sugestija nekolicine ljudi na TWF, plus ovde... LoS sam precizno opisao. od kuce, 360 stepeni, vidi se i preko drugih terena, sem preko drugih kuca, suma i brda...

Ne znam koliko je ono oko Rusevina jasno, posto kad sam rekao da je juris/bezanija opasna za sve sem Infantry Skirmishers, mislio sam na skirmisere pesadince, ne na pesadiju i skirmishere, odnosno nisam zaboravio zapetu (ne Infantry, Skirmishers and Swarms).
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Re: ETC Tereni

Post  Jogurt on Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:35 pm

Da mozda da prepravis recenicu:
Marching trough Ruins is possible only for skirmishers and Swarms.
Ruins are dangerous terrain for all but Infantry, Monstrous Infantry, Swarms and Warbeasts.
Charging or fleeing trough (including to and from) ruins is Dangerous for all but Infantry Skirmishers and Swarms.

Na ovu:
Marching through ruins is not possible unless done by non-flying skirmishers.
Ruins are dangerous terrain for all units except non-flying skirmishers and swarms.

-ovo dovede u pitanje jer mogu peg knigts da koriste ground movement i da ne prime dangereous terrain test.

Ili ovu:
Marching through ruins is not possible unless done swarms or by units with the unit type infantry and skirmishers special rule.
Ruins are dangerous terrain for all units except for swarms and units with the unit type infantry and skirmishers special rule.

-Jer flying skirmishers mogu da lete iz ruina bez dangereous terraina? Mozda da dodas da flyeri primaju dangereous terren test?
-Takodje ona recenica sa charging je nepotrebno jer se vidi da je dangereous ako chargujes posto je inace dangereous kad chargujes ili si ti mislio da se prima dangereous kad se pomera bez marchiranja?
-Mislio sam na hard cover samo unutra jer je mozda previse da imas jedinicu koja krece ka tebi a da nemozes da je upucas.

A za 15 RXB ti nije tolko strasno. A ipak to su RXB, sta je sa obicnim strelcima. Ali u svakom slucaju nije strasno, nece oni nista znacajno uraditi pre nego sto neko udje u zgradu i pojede ih. Ubiju ja mislim nesto manje od 5 orca u short rangu pre nego sto ih orci pojedu.

Neki su u TWF trazili manje kuca. Mislim da kucu u centru je losa. Neko ti dodje u kucu dok ima cover sa velikom jedinicom pesaka i lv4 maga. Taj mag onda baca sve vrste magije a ne mozes ga ubiti nikako. 20 warriora u kuci i maga niko nece isterati, a ni machinama ubiti. Za to vreme mag baca sta zeli sa 360 i velikim krugom dometa. Neke dodje blizu kuce i ako ti nekako 5 ratnika ti izadjes iza kuce iza los i na sigurnom si.

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